Living Trust Seminar – What you need to know
In our Seminar we discussed the process of creating a Living Trust, what the different types of Trusts there are(Revocable or Irrevocable), the difference between a Will & Trust, the difference between a Probate Sale vs a Trust Sale and much more. Watch below to get a full recap of the event with all the great details we covered.
This Seminar was presented by Amanda Wheeler. More details about the Speaker can be found on her website at www.WheelerLaw.com
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Below the video is a Text Transcript of the Event for your reference if needed.
Speaker 1 (00:00:00):
All right. Perfect. Okay, so now we’re recording. All right, you wanna get started or I’m ready to go. All right everyone. So my name is Jonathan [inaudible] and I work with concierge escrow along with some other companies. But today I’m just the sales agent for the company. So I’m the one hosting the event. My wife let the is the escrow officer for our company. Many of you already know her, she’s a little shy with speaking so she doesn’t want to come up. But if you could just stand up and raise your hand so everyone knows who you are.
Speaker 1 (00:00:30):
So reason we putting the seminar together and we’re going to be having subsequent seminars as well for different topics is she gets a lot of questions about different various topics and one of them is trust. So when people are involved in real estate, how do you trust work? What’s the difference between revokable irrevocable? How do I create a trust? What benefit does it have to help me with my situation and how do I use that when I’m buying, selling or refinancing real estate? Those are all different topics and we just created our trust. Amanda came as a strong referral from our general counsel attorney. His name is Rob and we also happen to meet another member here at the golf club that was also using her. So as a very much no brainer for us to work with Amanda. And she put together our trust. We had a very complicated trust to say the least, but she figured it out with ease. So I wouldn’t bring her up unless I fully trusted her and that’s why she’s here today. So without any further ado, I’ll give it to Amanda and she’ll take it away. I wasn’t
Speaker 2 (00:01:35):
Even going to require you to clap, but thank you. Anyway, good morning. My name is Amanda Wheeler and I am a business attorney. That’s my big umbrella is as a business attorney. But I want to start by thanking Jonathan for being the coordinator of the event. He really made these things happen. He called me, he was on me. He wanted to know what the topic was going to be, so I appreciate your involvement. Jonathan and I want also want to thank the host of this event, concierge escrow services. Now ladies being back there being very quiet but let me tell you, she is as smart as she is, fierce as she is. Beautiful. So those of you who are in the industry who are looking for someone to do escrow services, concierge should be the first one to come to the top of your mind.
Speaker 2 (00:02:32):
Now I like to know who I’m talking to. So I’m going to ask you a couple of questions if you don’t mind. First of all I’m going to ask that you turn your cell phones off if you would. I don’t want to have to talk to somebody forehead while you’re looking at your lap. I know how it works cause I do it myself. But so we’re going to ask you to turn off your cell phones for just a few minutes. I will be brief. I’m not going to be up here for a long time. How many of you are in the mortgage business anymore of your brokers here? Okay, we have, we have a couple of mortgage brokers. How many real estate agents or realtors are in the room? All right, that’s the predominant a number of people who were here. And how many of you are in the escrow business?
Speaker 2 (00:03:17):
Anybody in the escrow business? All right, us. She’s got a, she knew she knew how to pick her crowds and got a monopoly going here and that’s how you do it, lady. What’s the one, I’m going to ask you a question. What is the one thing that really unifies or the one thread that runs through all of our careers here? What’s the one thread? The one thing that connects us all in this room? No, not escrow transactions. And what are we doing? What are we dealing with? What’s the subject matter property? Okay. This lady right here was the first one to say property. A real estate is the answer because real estate is what we’re here to talk about. She wins a car, a Starbucks card and that will probably get you two drinks. If you go on the low side, maybe one if you got to have that frappuccino latte and all that stuff.
Speaker 2 (00:04:15):
So one vinta yeah, yeah. It’s hard to figure it out. I have to read the sign every time I go in there. So real estate is really what we want to talk about and, and I gave this a, I gave this seminar topic, I’m going to call it in real estate. We trust and there is nothing irreverent about there. I’m probably the biggest Holy roller in the whole room. But we want to talk about real estate because that’s the uniting thread, the thing that runs through what we’re going to be doing today. Real estate is the largest asset that most people own. Now there’s some of you who have big, you know, investment accounts, but real estate, generally speaking, based upon my 40 plus years of experience, that’s what people have as the majority of the assets or the major assets in their portfolio.
Speaker 2 (00:05:09):
The area that I’m going to address you about this morning is one area of my practice, which is estate planning. I’ve been doing estate planning for about half of my career and what I find is that people are very involved. People are very insecure about what’s going to happen to my real estate after I pass away. So what we try to do with the law offices of Amanda Wheeler, we make sure that we, number one, you organize your assets when you come into our office. So even if it’s something that’s not going to be involved in your living trust, we make sure that you get organized all the way around with everything, with respect to everything that you own. Note also that my other area of practice, if you have, there should be some brochures on your desk there. One of the other areas that I practice in is commercial real estate.
Speaker 2 (00:06:05):
Now don’t call me if you’ve got a residential problem because I’m not going to answer you on that. If you have a commercial real estate problem, we can help you with that as well. Right now I am working with a couple of, I’m working with churches. I don’t know how that happened. I didn’t go out looking for churches. Churches came looking for me. So I call that my annointing. I am a working with a couple of churches. I’ve helped churches to buy facilities. A lot of them are moving into industrial complex is now a very few churches have their own freestanding locations anymore. So I’ve been able to help some churches buy and sell or build their temple. So that’s been a, an extremely rewarding portion of my business. Right now I’m working with the Southern California denomination of a major denomination in the country.
Speaker 2 (00:07:00):
And they’ve cut, they came to me first with one lease problem. In other words, their churches oftentimes will bring in other businesses like nursery schools. They’ll bring them into their, onto their facility and they’ll be operating separately from each other. But I tell you, those nursery nursery schools can be a problem. Most childcare facilities can create problems. Churches are entering into leases with those people. And I’m trying to help them to make smart leases so that the temples can keep standing and so that the business issues do not become overwhelming for them. We do at my office, we do sales, we do acquisitions, we do leases. Don’t let your friends who are looking for space to lease, don’t let them go into that commercial lease blindly. Make sure that at least you help them or refer them to a, an attorney who can help them so that they don’t end up in something that they didn’t realize that they were going to get into.
Speaker 2 (00:08:02):
Cause this is going to be the rent is usually a major portion of the expenses that you have to deal with on a monthly or a yearly basis. So don’t go into that blindly. If you can help for just a moment, I want you to just imagine put on your imagine cap and just imagine that you just closed a major transaction, whether you’re a broker, an escrow officer, or a real estate agent. Just imagine you had this, you found, you know, you found the deal, the client believed enough in you to retain you for that transaction and you just got that deal closed. Imagine also at this point he got a little change in your pocket. You know, you real happy cause you got some money to meet next months budget, then you’re you, you shake hands with your, the deal is over. You wave them, you know bye bye. And you watch them float off into the sunset or Gallop off into the sunset depending upon what their mode of transportation is. That client is never to be seen again. Okay? Are you happy at that point? You’ve closed this deal. Are you happy at that point that you’ve weighed that client goodbye and they’re gone? How many people are happy? Anybody happy? Okay. Is anybody not happy at this point?
Speaker 2 (00:09:30):
That’s a good answer, but that’s not the right answer. Okay? They’re gone forever. Okay. You know what? I’m going to give you a Starbucks Clark card because you came close. You came close to the answer. The answer is no. You shouldn’t be happy at all. At that point, you should not be happy because you’ve waived that client. Goodbye. Okay? Never to be seen again. That’s the operative word. You don’t want that client to be gone forever. So what you need to start thinking about is not just being a deal closer. You need to start thinking about being a connector, a connector, somebody who pulls from all aspects of real estate, which is the thing that we’re here talking about today, keeps themselves connected to the client and becomes a resource to that client. The biggest, one of the best mortgage brokers that I know, she’s always busy.
Speaker 2 (00:10:31):
She’s always getting referrals from realtors escrow agents and the like, because she is what is known as a connector. She’s making sure that if a client has an issue, even if it’s not related to the funding that she obtained for them, that that client is going to think of her. Okay. Just like, I want you to think of me anytime there is a commercial real estate transaction that’s coming up. You’re supposed to think of me, Amanda Wheeler. Okay. This is how I look. I’m sorry. I took after my father and not my mom. My mom’s a beautiful woman. But you just take what you get. So the the, you know, I really do. I want you to think of me think in terms of, you know, what can I do to enhance this client’s position? When you buy a piece of real estate, when you buy that real estate, that’s not the end of the transaction.
Speaker 2 (00:11:29):
That’s just the beginning. That’s just the beginning. That person is going to need a gardener. That person’s going to need a plumber. They’re going to need someone to, you know, make the house pretty. Maybe a painter. But what they need most of all is they need a living trust. They need a living trust. Okay, that’s me. Okay. I am in that picture. So you want to make sure that you talk to your clients. You don’t let your clients that you’ve just sold this beautiful house to walk off into the sunset by themselves and not understand that now that they have this major asset, they need to protect that asset by doing what? Putting that asset into a living trust. Most of the trust that we do in our office are what are called revokable trust. In other words, that client or those clients have the right to make changes in that trust at any time.
Speaker 2 (00:12:35):
As long as there is breath, as long as they can breathe and talk to me sensibly, you don’t wait until they’re on their last leg or you know, on the fourth stage of dementia to come to me. But as long as that client can think rationally, that client has the ability to change their mind because frankly, life changes, life changes over time. Our needs will change over time. You might start off initially, maybe you got two kids and the kids are fairly young when you enter into your trust, but as the kids get older, you’re, you’re going to see certain growth things that happen in those children’s. Maybe some of those things that you see you don’t like anymore. Maybe you have a son or a daughter who’s, you know, falling short of God’s glory. Maybe they’re doing something that they shouldn’t get their hands on that money or your money, your hard earned money immediately.
Speaker 2 (00:13:31):
And so maybe you need to make some adjustments in that trust and you want to give yourself an opportunity to make changes down the line. I will contrast a revokable living trust very shortly with what we call an irrevocable trust or an irrevocable trust based upon, you know, what part of the country you you were raised in. I was, I was born and raised in the South and you know, moved to California many, many years ago, but we call it irrevocable. Okay. And I think that that kind of presses upon the point that you know, you can, can either make changes or not make changes. So one of the questions, the presenters, the organizers today gave me a series of questions that they wanted me to address and I’m going to address some of those questions in order. And to the extent I cannot address the question, then you know, feel free to contact me.
Speaker 2 (00:14:28):
You have my contact information, their business cards out there that you can call me to ask. Any questions that I don’t answer here. If your questions are too detailed, I’m going to going to suggest that you give us a call that I not stand here and waste everybody else’s time trying to answer questions that are really only of interest to you. So the first is what is a living trust. Now that sounds very, very basic, maybe too basic for some of you who already have a trust in place or who’ve been working in this area for some time a trust has been defined and not in the probate code by the way, as a property interest held by one person and that person is called a trustee at the request of another person. That person is called the set lore or the grand tour.
Speaker 2 (00:15:17):
And that trust is been set up for the benefit of a third party. Those third parties are call the beneficiaries. So the beneficiary may be your kids, it could be a brother and a sister, it could be a charity. Sometimes, oftentimes people will give money or leave money to the charity after they pass pass away. Case in point a, I am now doing a trust that ministration. So in addition to putting trust together, we also do what’s called trust administration. And that comes into play when somebody dies and they’re the last, you know, the, the last spouse standing. And they’ve made certain dis they want us to make certain distributions to certain people. So he came to me I also did his trust and he had several charities that are involved. Now, charitable trust are a very good thing. It’s a good way to save money, not only during life but after death.
Speaker 2 (00:16:16):
The only problem with his is that he’s got so many charities now I’ve got gotta deal with all these charities. Charities are right on top of it. They all have their division or department that’s set up to deal with charitable bequests. So I’m getting besieged with letters from the charities, but which is okay, which is okay, we can handle all of this. But once the trust is set up, someone dies, then you need to put yourself in a position so that the money can flow smoothly so that you make sure that the people that you intended to get the money will in fact get the money. So we’re doing trust administration for that particular individual. Typically trust administration will take about four months. It’s not going to happen overnight. Okay? It doesn’t happen overnight. It happens in a certain order. First we have to collect the assets, make sure we have a tax payer identification number that’s assigned to the trust.
Speaker 2 (00:17:15):
Once you die, you lose your social security number and you have to get your own employer or tin number, taxpayer identification number. That’s something that we handle for you. Then we walk the successor trustee through the process. We walk them through the process. We tell them how to do it properly. There are some statutes in the state of California that require that you do certain things like notify heirs and beneficiaries, beneficiaries that make sense airs. People hate it. People hate when you have to notify heirs because that means you may be having to send a letter to your aunt Helen or uncle Bob, people you haven’t seen in 99 years and all of a sudden they know that you’re dead and that you left some property. Okay? So they’re going to be all up in your business. Those are the people who call us first, the ones who’ve had the least involvement with the deceit.
Speaker 2 (00:18:14):
They are the ones who will call first. They want the information. They have a right to receive a copy of the trust. They don’t have a right to do much else, but they have a right to receive a copy of the trust. So what I want you to take away from here, if you don’t take anything else, is that a trust is not a legal entity. Okay? Not withstanding what some lawyers might have told you, it is not a legal entity. It will not a revokable trust, at least let me correct that. A revocable trust is not going to be a legal entity. It’s not going to shield you from liability to creditors. So if somebody wants to Sue you, you’ve got your house in a revokable living trust, they’re still going to Sue you. They’re gonna Sue you and the trust, they’ll Sue you both ways.
Speaker 2 (00:19:02):
Okay? They will automatically do that. So don’t assume that you have liability protection. You’ve probably heard this term asset protection. A lot of lawyers are billing themselves as asset protection attorneys, okay? Most of the time what they’re talking about is doing these offshore deals, these deals where you know, you take money, you put, you open up a blind account over in Bermuda or someplace that’s you know, remote from the U S and their intent there is to basically not be shield the money not be subject to us taxation. Okay? I don’t do that kind of law. There are attorneys out there who do that. So if you need quote pure asset protection, then those are the kinds of people that you should go to. So the second question, and if you have a question, if you have a question as we go along, I want this to be interactive, okay?
Speaker 2 (00:20:01):
Then you just raise your question and we’ll try to deal with it if we can deal with it, you know, in a short period of time here, be a medical corporation. You mean the medical corporation pursuing a lien against you? Yes, yes. For outstanding medical bills for outstanding medical bills. Now, before you start paying those bills, you want to make sure that you talk to someone because you don’t want to pay anything that’s not a legitimate bill. There are some medical bills that maybe you’re not liable for after that person dies, so, right, right. So, you know, all kinds of people are going to come come against you, but the key is to make sure that you don’t pay anything unless you have a legal obligation to pay it. If you have a legal OptBlue obligation to pay it, then certainly you want to, you know, get rid of that.
Speaker 2 (00:20:57):
Usually medical bills and things of that type. Typically speaking, the trustee will, we’ll take we’ll take care of those things right off the top. In other words, legitimate bills should get paid before any distributions are made. You don’t want anyone coming after you, but you know, there’s medic Medi-Cal claims, you know, there’s all kinds of claims that can be asserted against the person. So you just want to make sure it’s legitimate before you start paying those things off. So how do trust impact affect real estate is question number two. Number one, the trust ideally helps you to avoid pro probate. This whole thing is about avoiding probate. Okay. If you’ve ever been in probate and I call it probate, hell, you know, you don’t want to be there. That’s an exit that you want to miss. Yes.
Speaker 3 (00:21:51):
I heard that you are on the person like fake account and that I guess alleviates that probate claim.
Speaker 2 (00:22:00):
Well, you know, I have many of my clients are elderly people and so oftentimes when people get older and they don’t have a living trust, oftentimes what they’ll do is they say, Oh, I’m going to put my daughter’s name on the bank account so that she can go and, you know, write all the checks and then pay my bills. Well, sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn’t. You know, the problem is number one, what if something happens to your daughter first? There is no guarantee in life that that, that she’s going to outlive you. Okay? What you have set up, if you have an account, a bank account that has multiple names on it, what you’ve set up is a joint tenancy. And what that joint tendency means is that as soon as one person dies, the title then is split among the remaining joint tenants.
Speaker 2 (00:22:51):
My elderly clients often say, well, I’m not worried about having my daughter’s name on my bank account cause she’s going to do the right thing. Yeah, right. Sometimes they do, sometimes they do the right thing. They surprise me and they do the right thing and they say, yeah, mom intended this to be a trust asset and therefore I’m going to split this money among the brothers and sisters who are not named on this bank account. That doesn’t always work because legally that sister whose name is on the bank account owns that money and she can do with it whatever she wants to do. And then you’re going to end up in a situation without a living trust where you in fact will be fighting. Even though you’ve got a no contest clause in your trust, you will be fighting in court with this person over whether or not mom intended for you to be the sole owner of that bank account.
Speaker 2 (00:23:55):
So I tell them, you know, if you’re talking about a small amount of money, maybe just the bread and butter money, the money that you use to go to the grocery store, then I’m going to give you some discretion there. But if you’re talking about a large amount of money, you know you got $100,000 in a bank account that you’re trusting your daughter to handle properly. Don’t do it, just don’t do it. Don’t put her under the pressure of having to fight with the brothers and sisters, but rather say what you intend. And if you intend that all the siblings, all three siblings, share equally in that money. Put the money in the trust. Divide the trust assets. A third, a third, a third, and then there’s nothing to fight about. Okay? Some people will fight anyway. I’ve had, I’ve had people you know, fight over a crazy stuff I was in I was in some, it was 105 degrees.
Speaker 2 (00:24:48):
One day I was up in Pico Rivera and in a driveway there were six siblings, five on one side of the fight and one on the other who was, you know, she had dug in her heels. We’re standing there and I’m, you know, dripping sweat dividing gardening tools. Literally gardening tools were in there, you know, okay, I want this rate y’all, this is mine. You know, and you should have seen, I mean, they had a lot of fervor and, and in their minds they were doing the right thing. Yes. John, it, I mean, I had this issue with my own mother and I kind of know the answer, but let’s say the successor trustee was not on a bank account. Another sister was on the bank account. That is not the successor trustee. Right. The bank account is listed in the trust with the account number, but the other person is now technically the owner of that account.
Speaker 2 (00:25:40):
Yeah. You’ve got a contest on your hands, you’re going to have a contest on your hand. The person holding title to that property is not gonna going to give it up. Not easily. Okay, so you may end up the only winner in that game would be me. Yeah. Okay. The only winner in that game that is because the by the time you pay an attorney to fight that fight, there’s not going to be anything left. There’s nothing. Nothing’s going to be left for the beneficiaries. And if we get to this slide, I’m going to show you an example of, of how that happens. So you want your property to be in a trust. You do the, in that case, you’re going to have to, how do you prove intent after somebody dead, unless they wrote a note and signed it and dated it. How do you prove intent? Oftentimes parents might say, okay, I’m going to give the a M bank account to you because you are the one who took care of me when I was sick. You took care of me in my final days. And so therefore I want to give you this bank account. That’s what she’s telling to the daughter who’s taking care of her, but that’s not what she’s telling to the person who is the trustee of the trust. Yes sir.
Speaker 4 (00:27:00):
Well, would attend because I had a client who was a, has his house. Well, how did the houses get inherit? He’s going to inherit his mother’s house. Right? She had six houses and then little by little she was incorporating each one into the trust and then unfortunately she passed away before she got to the,
Speaker 2 (00:27:15):
That’s why you don’t do it. Little by little, you take all the houses and you dump them in that trust right away. Okay. Even if you want to sell something later on, sell it there. No restriction, but that’s a bad strategy to do things a little bit at a time. I say go all in. Would you be able to incorporate that property? Not after she’s dead. It’s either in or out. Now you can look at the trust schedule and you may have a general statement like we often have which says, all real estate owned by the set lore, another trust fight. Okay, you’re in a fight not easily incorporated. The, your best evidence of your intent to put property into the trust is to get a tree trust transfer deed, sign it into the trust in the name of the current trust, and then the issue is removed.
Speaker 2 (00:28:04):
There is a thing called a HEG stat petition where there may be, maybe you didn’t refer to the specific location of the, of the house, but you’ve got this general proposition. Then you can go to court and you can ask the, ask the judge to make that determination for you. But you’re still in court at that point. And the whole point of doing the living trust is to stay out of court. Don’t let the judge impose his will over your, will you make your plans clear by putting your property into the living trust to begin with. Now there’s some exceptions to what I just said in terms of some people do the joint tendency thing that doesn’t necessarily work as well. It gets the title to the next person, but you can put more than one person. So if there’s three people, one dies, then the other two own it.
Speaker 2 (00:28:55):
Okay. They own it outright. But joint tendency may not be the West best way to hold title to property because of tax laws. Okay. I’m not going to go into detail here, but joint tenancy you can lose out. It’s one step up in various bases versus two. In other words, how’s the property going to be valued if the final owner ends up selling it? How do you, how do you determine what the tax is on that property? So there is a basis issue involved there. The other possibility is to do community property with right of survivorship. Which is, is a good alternative, but it’s not necessarily the best alternative because it’s going to only deal with that one asset if do a living trust. You’re dealing with all your assets and you’re getting everything put into place at once, even if it’s an asset that you don’t own.
Speaker 2 (00:29:48):
When you do the trust, you can simply then say you buy a new house after you establish your living trust. What you do then is when you take title to that property, you make sure that your escrow agent Leddy puts a deed, a second deed. Even if you’re initially buying it in your individual capacity, you want to make sure that escrow agent does a second deed so that that property is in your trust before you leave that office. Okay. That’s critical. Keep that in mind. Also with respect to a refinancing, I’ve seen people have major problems. They go out and they do. They own the house. The house is beautifully in the trust. Everything is good. They go do a refi. The refi, the bank officer requires them to take it out of the trust to do the refinancing, make sure they put it back into the trust.
Speaker 2 (00:30:41):
Don’t leave the table until the house is in the trust and you follow up on them. Even if they tell you it’s going to be done, you follow up one, two months later to make sure that the final title in that property is in the name of your trust. Another question that that’s, that’s been raised. What is the difference between a trust sale and a probate sale? It’s a world of difference. Okay. If you’re doing a trust sale, you are basically going to be going to that escrow office and you’re going to be telling them that you know, I’m the successor trustee on the trust. You know, my mother has passed away and we want to sell the house. So you become the substitute owner, you come to my office first, we do an affidavit of death and we’ll prepare a deed transferring the property from your mother to you as the successor trustee. Now there’s a thing called a parent child exemption. So depending upon who is serving as successor trustee, they may or may not consider that to be a change of ownership. Okay? So if you are a parent giving property to your child, then that keeps the property tax. A prop 13, that keeps that in place. Keeps it in place. Yes.
Speaker 5 (00:32:08):
Well with regards to the property jobs though, if you’re going to sell the property, I would have, this happened with my mom. We waited five years, sell the property, we had to pay taxes on the five years. In addition to the price of the sale.
Speaker 2 (00:32:27):
Yeah. Cause once the person dies, that’s considered to be, the date of death is considered to be the, the, the, the, the change, change over. Okay. So I don’t know why you waited five years. Most often we want you read it yet. Okay. See that’s what happened. You got to pay you, you got to know when to transfer and when not to transfer while you’re holding onto that property. Sober tax authority, the assessor’s going to go back to the date of death and they got that they’re going back to the date of death. So you don’t want to hold onto most trust. You want to get everything out of the estate as quickly as possible. Unless you are a high roller, you know, you somebody who you got so much stuff that there’s a reason to, you know, play around with it. But generally speaking, most people need the money, they want the money and they want it as quickly as possible. We can normally do it within four months, assuming there is no contest involved. And assuming, you know, people aren’t fighting each other, we can make it happen within four months that you had a question.
Speaker 3 (00:33:28):
What if, what if it’s just liquid assets in our trust in dipping that up? I mean how does, do you have to pay taxes on that?
Speaker 2 (00:33:40):
No. What usually happens, and it depends on what, it depends on the liquid acid that you’re talking about. First of all, $200,000. Okay. Cash in a, in a bank and normally you wait your, for moms you, you, you’ve given your notices to your heirs and beneficiaries and then you just write a check. You write a check. Okay. Now, it’s usually not that simple cause usually the money is not sitting in cash. It’s not as liquid as one would like. Usually the money is going to be in a stock account or it might be an insurance pot. It can be any number of ways to have the money. Like yesterday I was dealing with and different companies are have different policies, some are easy to deal with and some are not. So I’m not going to mention any names cause they’ll probably Sue me if I tell you who’s hard to deal with that way you wouldn’t want to invest with them.
Speaker 2 (00:34:33):
So I’m not going to say who those people are. I might whisper it to you like later, but there are some people you just don’t want to deal with. Okay. So we, the trustee in this case who was a non-family member had been trying to get money paid out from this particular insurance company. So they came to me and I contacted the insurance company and first of all, they give you the run around. Okay. They’re going to have you running around. They won’t tell you any information until you prove who you are. And then they pretend they didn’t get your email or your facts, and then you say, do I need to walk it over to you or what? They will give you a hard time. Why is that? The longer they hold onto the money, the richer they get. Okay?
Speaker 2 (00:35:21):
So it’s not always easy dealing with these these companies. Some are simple, some are not. Many are not. And so we finally got the right person on the line. The first person that I spoke to just insisted that we had to go to probate and we had to produce letters testamentary. And I said, we’re not going to probate. That’s the whole reason why we did this trust is to avoid going to probate. And so that was the first call. I said, put your boss on the line. I need to speak to a supervisor. Oh, ma’am, I know. Put your boss on the line. I need to speak to a supervisor because we’re not going into probate. The next call I make, and it’s always a different person. It’s never the same person answering the phone. I spoke to someone who understood that we were not going to probate and we were at least able to get past that first fundamental hurdle. And so we’re not done yet, but you know, it’s gonna take some time and you have to really stay on top of it. Oftentimes it will take several letters to collect on what should have been a very simple account. There are some options that we can use, you know, smallest state affidavits and things of that sort. But we hope that the company will just pay up easily. They don’t always pay up easily. Yes.
Speaker 5 (00:36:46):
Cause I’m kind of naive about all this as once you pass away, you have their place in it. Living trust or a revokable trust. Does it dissolve?
Speaker 2 (00:36:56):
The trust dissolves after everything. It’s distributed out. You can’t keep it in the trust. You can keep it in the trust, but you’re going to be paying money on it. Okay. If you have rents that exceed $600, you’re going to be paying rents. And the rate of a taxation on a trust is much higher than on an individual. So that’s a, that’s why I said, why are you holding onto it for five years? Most people, you want to deal it out as fast as you can. The rent becomes the rent becomes a factor. So I’ve had people say, Oh, you know, my brothers and sisters and I, we agree that we just want to rent the property out. Well that’s fine, but get the property out of the trust, get the trust out of the business and do it as individuals. If you want to own each an individual piece of property or even better still create an LLC or something. But first, if it’s brothers and sisters, you want to transfer it to yourselves individually, individually, and then transfer it onto an LLC. So the timing and the way that you transfer is critical. It’s going to make a difference in terms of how you end up paying taxes. Yes, sir.
Speaker 5 (00:38:08):
What you’re suggesting [inaudible] for taxes.
Speaker 2 (00:38:13):
Not, not if you’re the first transfer from parent to child. That’s, that is not going to [inaudible].
Speaker 5 (00:38:19):
So you as a person, you as a person to your LLC
Speaker 2 (00:38:24):
It depends on the percentages of ownership. Okay. That’s not an easy question to answer because each fact situation has to be individually looked at. There attorneys who just specialize in the area of figuring out how to time your transfers. But parent child is always the simplest. And then transferring it from individuals to the LLC or the corporation. That’s a big question Mark. Okay. So you have to know what you’re doing before you do it. I had one I had a couple of sisters who they own some property and one wanted to trade out some cash out of the estate and the other one wanted to take the property. What they did was they started doing transfers became before they came to us and they ended up in a big mess and they ended up paying taxes that they didn’t need to pay.
Speaker 2 (00:39:14):
Now, disclaimer, I’m not a tax lawyer. Okay? I don’t purport to be a tax lawyer, but I do know enough when I see a problem to tell you this is a problem. This is a tax problem. You need to talk to a tax attorney about it. Second disclaimer, we’re also not probate attorneys per se. I have people that I work with in probate who go into probate every day. And those are the people who should be dealing with your probates. Probate is a long extended process. I don’t want you to be there and I don’t want to be there. So I turned that over to another guy who likes being in probate. Okay? He likes going there. He’s been there for 30 years. And so if you have a probate situation, call me first. I’ll give him your number. Time-Wise, let me look and see where we are. Okay. We are running out of time.
Speaker 4 (00:40:04):
Can you go from a, so let’s say the seas has a trust, you have a trust and you go you know, a parent, child trust to trust.
Speaker 2 (00:40:12):
That depends. That’s a fact situation that we would need to, to, to look at. You might need to do multiple transfers. There you might, in other words, you might have to go from you, you might have to go from your parents, trust you, you individually. So you get that you get that exclusion and then from you to your trust. And it depends on how you know, if you’re going to be the hundred percent owner of that LLC, then you may not have a problem. You’re trying to form an LLC and your wife or, or the other person is a a is going to have a percentage interest in the LLC. It matters how you do it. So you shouldn’t do it until you get someone who knows what they’re doing to handle it. Yes, lady,
Speaker 5 (00:40:55):
Kind of make a comment based on what your question was then. For example, if you’re transferring the trust, your mom’s trust to you, the successor trustee, you then utilize herself and then then the less transfers that over to your LLC, you’re wanting to present on her. You don’t get any property tax, your property taxes don’t get
Speaker 2 (00:41:14):
If he’s 100% all right
Speaker 5 (00:41:15):
As far as you are. So let’s just, sensors have to be the exact same people owning the LLC,
Speaker 2 (00:41:22):
That that’s a look at a revenue and taxation code. I think it’s, and I’m not going to give you a section cause I will probably give it to you wrong. What the percentage of ownership is in the acquiring interest in the acquiring entity and the entity that you’re transferring it to. That’s what you have to look at. So if you have an LLC that’s already in place and you’re only a 50% owner of the LLC, you’re not going to be able to go from your parent to you and you to that LLC without incurring some percentage of taxation. Okay. Maybe your 50% is protected, but the other 50% may not be if somebody else owns it. So you’ve got to look at, you know, I always review anytime I have anything that’s complicated is if it’s not from, from parent to child, 100% child to entity 100%, I always run it through one of my tax people.
Speaker 2 (00:42:22):
Cause you can, you can really get messed up there. Okay. So assuming we’re okay, hold one second. I want to cut a cover a couple more things and just make sure we get those in there and then we’ll come back with the questions. Okay. question. So trust sale. Basically whoever is the successor trustee steps into the shoes of the owner. We write everything up. You never see a courthouse. Okay. It is fairly clean process. I write up the deeds myself. I do if it, if we need an affidavit of death, I write up that myself. I coordinate with the real estate broker. If it’s a deal where they’re taking a house and they’re going to sell that house to an unrelated third party, you want to make sure that you coordinate with the realtor because I don’t want to send an affidavit of death and tress trust transfer deeds and find out that you’ve already, you know, you’ve already got a contract, a PSA in place, and then our deeds end up crossing over each other or conflicting.
Speaker 2 (00:43:29):
So if it’s an imminent sale, say the the successor trustee comes to me, they’ve got a buyer online for that property. Then I want to make sure that I can hold on to my affidavit of death and my trust transfer D and then when you’re preparing the D to sell it from the successor trustee to the third party, I can bring my deeds to you and then you can send or walk, walk in. It’s better to walk in when you’re doing success, you know multiple deeds put put up on a piece of paper to the assessor. The deeds are to be courted in this order. Okay? You specify the order you walk it in and then you make sure everything gets timestamped in order because it’s going to be the last one on there that’s going to be controlling as far as who has the ownership.
Speaker 2 (00:44:18):
Now in a probate sale, you are in a different world. It’s an entirely different world. And you, so first you gotta hire the probate attorney that’s going cost you something. The amount that they can get, the probate attorney can receive. It’s dictated by law. However, I have never known a probate attorney who doesn’t from time to time ask for extraordinary expenses. What does that mean? That means you’re outside of the restrictions in terms of what a he or she can charge you. They have to go to probate court. They have to seek authority. Okay. They’re either going to seek full authority or limited authority in all likelihood, full authority because if they get limited authority, that means they’re going to have to go back to court just about every time they want to make anything happen. The bad thing about the full authority is that the bond, you have to have a bond, you got to post the bond and probate is that the full authority, your bond is going to be more expensive, but all in all it’s worth it to get a full authority if you can.
Speaker 2 (00:45:24):
Now there are some services out there that can help the probate attorney to get through this process. One of the things they have to do is file this notice of proposed action anytime they’re going to sell real estate. So you’ve got to file that notice. And that’s going to disclose your sell price, your buyer’s name, your commission, and certain escrow instructions. So that’s a lot of information that’s going to be out there publicly. Yes, all those things have to be shown, not the full escrow instruction, but some escrow instructions may actually have to be in that notice of proposed action. Then you’ve got to publish a notice in a newspaper for a certain period of time, certain number of days. I think it’s generally speaking 15. And then you got deposit the proceeds of sale into a quote blocked a cow. Now there’s a couple of things, ways to get around that.
Speaker 2 (00:46:20):
I understand. The Charles Schwab has a bond services department where they can basically do post a lot of these notices for you and get and actually act as the account holder. But there’s just a lot of things here that you don’t want to go through if you can avoid. Now I have about 10 copies of something that I excerpted from the internet. One of the people that I use on my probate is a gentleman named Alan Davis and he has published a book that can be downloaded from the internet. So if you need more information, go to Alan, a L a N D Davis. What do I have? I think it’s dot com, but I will double check that. But if you’re really in that area, you operate there, you can pick up one of the excerpts that I have or you can go onto the internet and and download the whole thing.
Speaker 2 (00:47:19):
I think it’s Allen D davis.com. But just check. He worked. He was a professor so he used to teach, you know, this kind of thing. So for somebody who’s involved with a lot of probate sales is probably worth your time to go online to make sure that you have that information. The name of the guide is, Oh, here it is Allen Allen D davis.com, and it’s called the student guide for probate in California. It’s written directly to college students, so it’s pretty much in plain English and it’s easy to follow. And I did get his permission before I exerted anything. And then the finally the the attorney has to file a first and final accounting. No money can be dispersed until that first and final accounting is recorded and approved by the judge. So until you get a judge to stamp that, this whole process and talking to Allen, it can take some time. Depending upon the size of the estate, you might be in probate a year, two years, sometimes three, maybe more, maybe more. So contrast that with doing a trust sale and it’s a no brainer. You don’t want to be in probate. The final question that I’m going to address is what is the difference between a revocable trust and an irrevocable trust? The trust that I do in my office are 99% of them are revokable trust. That means that they can be changed at any point in time
Speaker 3 (00:48:54):
Who needs an irrevocable trust. Now you’ll hear some of these asset protection people talking about irrevocable trust. And I’ve had clients come to me and say, well, I’ll just create me an irrevocable trust. And you know, I’m looking at him, he’s a young man and I’m like, well, you’re 30 years old. That means you’re partying with ownership of that asset at age 30. And that means you won’t be getting any income from that asset at age 30. Is that really what you want to do then they, him and ha and that usually, you know, I’m talking about there are some people who need, who can use an irrevocable trust. Anyone who doesn’t need the income doesn’t need the asset and you’re not planning on ever trying to go back and say, Oh, I changed my mind. There may be no changing of the mind when it comes to an irrevocable trust.
Speaker 3 (00:49:45):
There some things people can do to get around it, but generally speaking, don’t do it unless you can afford not to have that asset. A example of where an irrevocable trust makes sense and irresolvable trust makes sense. When I’m going to give you an example of, we have a senior citizen who despite her protests has to move out of her house. She’s got to move because the doctor say she can’t move along. So that senior that has a very, you know, a decent house, a rentable house. And so what we do is we create an irrevocable trust because we figured the senior has put up, put aside enough cash so that they can take care of their living needs, you know, outside of the, what was the original home. Then you create an irrevocable trust putting someone other than the senior in charge as the trustee the house has been rented out the income from that house then does it go to the senior of the income goals into a bank account that’s taxable to trust the trust.
Speaker 3 (00:50:52):
Then the irrevocable trust has to file a yearly tax return with respect to that income that, that they will receive. Why would the you want to do that? Maybe they are getting some type of government benefit that is income based. In other words, that you gotta be in a certain income category. If you can make no more than X dollars, then you can’t afford to take the income from that house. Cause that’ll just qualify you say for your VA benefits as a rental income and that’s we’re not selling property. So your evolvable trust is going to say that when that scene dies, then the trustee, you know what will trust these, the owner of the trust from the time that you create the irrevocable trust and the trustee is paying income tax on the rent that’s coming up the trust, none of the rent can then go to the scene.
Speaker 3 (00:51:46):
Okay. I’ve seen people, what happens is if they have the beneficiaries have sometimes, because they needed the money start to take the income, but then they’re filing that on their income taxes, not the same. So is the income tax from the rental house that you were, that you’re trying to shield the senior from having to take into their account? So that’s a perfect example of a, yesterday you ever bought a revokable trust when you retire, you can, you can, I won’t call it converting of the trust, I would call it, you can take an assets into that’s in a revokable trust and put it into at your revolt. Yes, you can do it when you retire, but remember you can’t have, you can’t take it back. Okay. Once it’s irrevocable, it gives you revolt. Okay. I had another question but I’m not going to go to that cause I don’t think we’re going to have time to reflect that he has dementia.
Speaker 3 (00:52:55):
Yeah. What happened in situations like that? Can you switch it? He can go from if the, say his house is in a revolt and then he gets from it to now the issue is the dementia. Okay. And I’ve dealt with this in my own family. You gotta make a move before that person has dementia or Alzheimer’s to the extent that they can’t sign the removable trust cause they’re the ones who own the property. Remember they’ve gotta have enough of mind that they can transfer that house into an irrevocable trust. So don’t go to the attorney. If there’s any question in terms of capacity go, they’ll say, Oh, dad’s got dementia. Okay. If there’s different levels of dementia, there’s different levels of Alzheimer’s and so only a doctor should be making that determination. So don’t be too quick to go out and get in capacity declarations on day.
Speaker 3 (00:53:52):
If there’s any question as to [inaudible] made sure you’ve talked to the doctor first because you don’t want to, you know, some attorneys will, I mean they’ll, they’ll sign anything as long as the person can hold a pen and put an X down, they’ll sign it up. Not good practice, not legal. And I don’t do that. Okay. I always have to see the client and make sure, do you understand that you’re transferring something over, you understand you’re transferring this property to your son is trustee, do you understand? You can’t get it back. The new spouse might be like, Hey, make some changes or something like that. If dad does not have the mental capacity and the bar is low, okay. The bar is pretty low and there’s some attorneys out there who are in the role and they will do anything, which is not a good idea.
Speaker 3 (00:54:45):
Not a good idea. So if that does not have capacity make a decision as to whether you actually want to have that medical determination may, but if he really doesn’t know what’s going on, it’s not appropriate to do. Yes, sir. When someone retires and they put the house into a revokable trust, are they still eligible for medical, medical go after them after they passed away? Well, you know, there’s some laws and I should have brought that with me, but recently if the house is in a revokable trust and I’m basing this on an article that I read partially I’ve read it completely. Okay. But it should be Medi-Cal, except if it’s in a revolt trust. That’s another reason to have your house in a truck. If it’s not in a trust, then they can go after. But I don’t have a Senate bill here.
Speaker 3 (00:55:48):
I don’t have the code. So you know, you still qualify for those benefits before I have not been able to qualify cause they have rental income where they have rec. That’s a question that you need to know what the requirements are. I’m not a medical specialist so I’m not going to answer that questions. I’m going to say you need to know what the requirements are. Certain assets are exempt and I believe a residence, you know, as long as they’re living in it or not. There are some exemptions. So you need to look at what’s exam, what, what can the spouse, what can the spouse do? What if the spouse is living there and the M the elderly person is not, there’s different rules. So you got to know what the, what the exemption amounts are. What’s excluded from the medical determination. Yes. Final question in our vegetable trust, father daughter, right, and their siblings.
Speaker 3 (00:56:50):
But I’m the person, like I’m the successor trustee. You’re the successor trustee. Can Mike dad changing without notifying your dad can do anything that he wants without notifying you as long as he has the capacity to do so. It’s his trust. Remember revokable buyer’s terms, he can do anything that he wants. Okay. So what you have to be careful about what we see a lot of is some undue influence going on. Okay. People want to get our dad’s good side or become or get named as the successor trustee. So they get very close to dad sometimes when he’s in his last days. And they can oftentimes influence that to do things that they shouldn’t be influencing him to do. So you have to stay on top of it to make dad understand that he shouldn’t be signing anything at a certain point. In fact, you know, just like you tell him, Hey, if a solicitor calls, don’t let him come through the house. They may not listen to you. Just like get a really, really, really watch it. When it comes to [inaudible]
Speaker 4 (00:57:51):
Sorry, sorry, the last question [inaudible]. So if somebody says he has a, they’re going into Alzheimer’s or dementia, can they, I won’t point designate, okay, this is it. I want it to be [inaudible] and say, okay, that’s it.
Speaker 3 (00:58:12):
They can do anything they want to do as long as they have capacity to do it. And your job is trying to keep them from being under the influence of someone who does not have their interest at heart. The main thing is to make sure that asset, which is their asset is being used for their wellbeing. I hate it when I see somebody go out and try to take the seniors home and then they’re using the money for themselves. Okay. Am I should be put aside for that scene and that scene at a time wise? I think we’re done. We are at 10 31. I had a nice video that,
Speaker 4 (00:58:50):
I mean we have time. We have [inaudible] can you
Speaker 3 (00:59:01):
Give some examples of some people who did it? Did not do it the right way. Okay. This is Chris Kyle. He died at age 38. He’s better known as he’s better known as the American sniper. Chris Kyle went and served some tours of duty. I think it was Afghanistan. He got really famous because of bio autobiography that he did. Then there was this black blockbuster movie there, I think it was Bradley Cooper was the star of it. So Chris was looking really good in that movie. He did not do, did not have a living trust in place. His wife ended up suing everybody. She sued everybody. He was, Chris had said, I guess verbally during his lifetime that he wanted the proceeds from his book and whatever he was to earn from the movie to go to veteran’s causes. But the why couldn’t remember that she couldn’t hear that. And so she ended up suing everybody and there’s multiple lawsuits pending. I think they might’ve been. Some of that might’ve been settled since the time that this video was done, but it was a major, major mess. Okay. Next slide.
Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
This is Amy Winehouse. If you recall, Amy said, I’m not going to rehab. No, no, no, no. To rehab. She ended up dying in age 27. Unfortunately this is a low estimate of what her estate is worth. They’re still playing her music. Her state is way above that. This was based on information that we had at the time that PowerPoint was done. Fortunately her parents did the right thing. They opened a foundation to assist, you know, up and coming artists. And so her money has been used to some extent properly, but the parents ended up getting the money because she was divorced and she had no children. So you see what happens if you don’t control when you don’t say upfront way. Next slide. Sonny bono. Okay. Sonny Vamos is best known as part of Sonny and Cher, but he also ended up being a he ended up being a Congressman from out of the Palm Springs area.
Speaker 3 (01:01:11):
He had three kids and then a fourth that was claiming to be his kid. So he had kind of this fraternity fight going on. Apparently Sonny had a child while he was still married to share a, I think the lawsuit from the, the, the alleged child got dropped. He probably got paid well to drop that lawsuit. And let’s share file the lawsuit claiming that some of the money owed her from the divorce and some of the hidden royalties hadn’t been paid. So I think that one’s been settled as well. But a lot of the money got lost from the intended beneficiaries because Sonny had not explained in detail what it is that he wanted to happen. Okay, next slide. Okay. Pablo Picasso. Now Pablo Picasso is a well known artists and his, his state was they had an estimate as made then at at about $30 million, but it’s much, much more, his paintings are being sold for $30 million each at his estate ended up paying three and a half million of those dollars in estate taxes because he didn’t have a trust.
Speaker 3 (01:02:26):
He was 91 when he died, but he was one of those people who thought, I’m going to live forever. Okay, you didn’t make it. None of us are gonna make it. You’re not going to live forever, so we need to do something. The saddest part about the costumes, the state is that he was a strange from a couple of his kids, guess who ended up being the trustee being appointed as a trustee of the state. His son, who was a strange from him, ended up dictating what was going to happen. I’m sure it Picasso was rolling in his grave. Go out there. Okay. A lot of losses involved because he was a well known ladies man. He had why’s this person is all kinds of people, all kinds of children, everything. Koala, the bad son ended up and then straightening the state. Three, three of his out of wedlock children sued and successfully thought to be named heirs.
Speaker 3 (01:03:22):
So if you’ve got any kids thang out there, you better, you better get on top of these things and make it ride. Okay, next slide. Okay. Marilyn Monroe. This is one of the saddest situations. She died back in 1962 at age 36. They’re still playing. Her felt he had stayed at that time. Remember this was 62 was estimated to be one point $6 million, but it’s worth quite a bit. More than that. She never mentioned, I think she might’ve had a will or something that was not a purely formal document. She never said who was going to get her rights to publicity. And she is one of those people, despite the fact that she’s been there forever. People use her photographs. So nobody’s really controlling her image and making money off that image as they had a right to be. Okay. So at the end, she paid $372,000 in debt.
Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
The beneficiaries split $101,000 pitiful. Just boom. Okay. Robin Williams. I think Robin did have something. He had a trust agreement, but it wasn’t clearly written there. His estimate was about a hundred billion dollars. He died I think by suicide a few years ago. So that was kind of a, a sad ending, but he left all kinds of strings hanging out there. Okay, excellent. And this is my favorite person. I’m going to tell you, I get choked up every time I see Prince. That was my favorite guy. I was going to see Prince when he was wearing raincoats and nothing else. [inaudible] And you know, just really a phenomenal business man. So when he died and they said he didn’t have a living trust, I mean, I’m mourned. Thought, my God, how could you do that? Because he’s got a catalog of music that will last forever. And he had, I think he had some half siblings and he had one full sister.
Speaker 3 (01:05:30):
They are still in litigation over Prince’s estate. I think we estimated him the estate as well over 800, $800 million and probably going up because his music is going to live forever. His music to live. He didn’t make it to the musical. Okay. final slide. Okay. Aretha Franklin. Aretha died is 76 in 2018. Now some people claim she had a will. All kinds of people came up, a little scribbles and things on the side that they claimed were a week as well. But a recess attorney had begged her bag turf to get a trust in place. And for whatever reason she decided not to. She must not have liked her heirs. That’s y’all thing. I can come up with that mean either she didn’t care or she wanted people to fight or she just told me he didn’t understand. But her state I believe is they said it’s an 80 billion. Once again, her music catalog is going to live on forever. And she didn’t have it completely together for whatever reason. That is the next slide. If there’s anything left, I think that’s it. Okay. This is my, my tagline. If you don’t have an estate plan, the state has a plan for you.
Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
That’s it. Lady. Did you have something you wanted to add? No. Yes. Yeah. I just had a question. So I read the Franklin will is a will not legally binding. It can be legally binding but you are in court. And then the question becomes if she didn’t do a trust or do a will and logic with her attorney wants to keep all these people from out here saying, Oh here’s the will, then you’ve got competing wills. Sometimes people come up with things that look like a will but maybe it wasn’t notarized. Maybe it wasn’t witness. Cause there are some baseline requirements even for will. Either way with a, we’ll take this information, you will be in probate. Even with the will, you will be in probate. So the only way to get around that would have been for her to have a living trust in place and have it laws with someone showing the date, showing the times, pulling witness, you know, fully notarized, and then that would’ve been eliminated.
Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
A lot of the questions that came up when people were coming out of the woodwork with these various competing wills, I mean I can write up something and say, okay, and say my name is Aretha Franklin and you know, then you got handwriting experts and all that. So just avoid it. Do your living trust living. Does the revokable trust take over the will [inaudible] what happens is that you do a package of documents. The will is not intended to be improving. Okay? You do a living trust. You have what’s called pour over wills and put the will says you’ve got everything that I have. If I made a mistake and left anything out, all of that’s going to be trustee of my trust. So the trust is the controlling document. The will is simply a backup document. You going to do healthcare directives as well. You’re going to do durable powers of attorney for asset management as well.
Speaker 3 (01:08:51):
So it’s a packet of documents that you do and you need them all in order to work together with each other while you, while you are living and after your dad. Okay. So don’t just do the trials. Don’t just do the, we’ll do a package of documents. Okay. Here’s the final, final, final, final quote. Yes. It’s a moment that hired a different lawyer to do the trust. The trustee now decided that they don’t want to go with that, nor do they want to go and sit with you can do that. Absolutely. You are not bound. You are not bound by the attorney that did your estate. What does it cost you to get the trust? The cost. And I’m going to give you some general costs. Okay. So the cost will go up as years go by. Okay. The cost is right now, so many, someone only has one property is $2,800 for an individual and it’s $3,000 for a married couple.
Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
And that includes all of those, that package of documents that I just talked about that the prices will go up. Now as a marketing piece, when we talked about you being a connector, I have here some discount coupons. Okay. So if you’re here today, I will and you come up, I’m not gonna pass them out cause I don’t like to leave stuff on the table that involves money. If you come up here, talk to me, give me your business card, we’ll make sure you get this. Use this as a connect or once you close your real estate transactions, say, by the way, you know, if you don’t have an estate plan, the state has a plan for you. Here is a $100 coupon that will reduce your costs of doing the living trust at my law office. If you do it by December 31st, 2020, it doesn’t have an expiration date.
Speaker 6 (01:10:44):
The
Speaker 3 (01:10:44):
31St. Okay. You want to sign on the line? Thank you all for for sitting through my discussion. If you have a question come up to me afterwards. I know. I know it’s late and people need to leave, but I appreciate it. Take my business card. If you have a question, please call us and we will do our best to help you last week. If you need the summary on the sale of property that came from Allen baby circle, come up and get that awesome.